Tackling TriDot Workouts: Big Gear, Threshold Intervals, Threshold and Hold, Step Ups, and Over Unders

TriDot Podcast Episode 328

Tackling TriDot Workouts: Big Gear, Threshold Intervals, Threshold and Hold, Step Ups, and Over Unders

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Vanessa Ronksley: Welcome to the TriDot Podcast. Today we are decoding bike workouts; the grinding, long intervals we have come to know and love. We will describe each workout, what they're designed to develop, how to execute them effectively, and how they all work together to make you a stronger and smarter cyclist. I'm Vanessa, your average triathlete with elite level enthusiasm. And I am honored to be sitting here with TriDot coach, Elizabeth James. She is the expert who will help us unpack the why behind some of the key bike workouts that you'll be seeing in your training. They are going to be all the way from Big Gear to Over Unders, and everything in between. Now, we treat this show like any good workout. We'll start with our warm-up question, settle in for our main set conversation, where we break down each session, and then we'll wrap things up with the Cool Down, where an audience question will be answered by none other than Coach EJ. Lots of good stuff. Let's get to it.

Announcer: This is the TriDot Podcast, the triathlon show that brings you world class coaching with every conversation. Let's get started with today's warm-up.

Vanessa: Alright, Elizabeth, welcome back to the show.

Elizabeth James: Thank you so much. I'm always excited to be here and today is especially great; just you and me sitting down for a good conversation about bike workouts.

Vanessa: That sounds like a perfect way to spend the next little bit of time. I couldn't imagine a better way. Now, before we get into decoding these bike workouts, let's start with a fun one for our warm-up question. If you could hop on your bike and ride anywhere in the world, no logistics, no limitations, where would it be and why?

Elizabeth: Easy answer for me. I'm going back to Mallorca. I spent three weeks there in early 2024, and I cannot wait to go back. Just iconic, historic, challenging, beautiful riding. So good. I would go back in a heartbeat. That's where I'm going.

Vanessa: Mallorca. I actually have been to Mallorca, and it was pre-triathlon days. But I do remember driving up all of the hills and seeing all of the cyclists and thinking that they were absolutely mad for going up these massive hills. But then they would get to the top and have a beautiful little cappuccino in this mountainous cafe, and it just looks so amazing. I love that. Now, for me, I actually have no idea where I'd want to go because I love being on my bike. So just take me anywhere on my bike, and I will be happy as a clam. But in terms of the location, I think we have to remove some logistics for what I'm going to say. But I would love to do the Great Ocean Road in Melbourne-- not in Melbourne, in Australia. And the logistics that would have to be removed is that the road would have to be completely closed. There'd be no traffic. And I just think it would be such a beautiful thing to witness. I remember driving the Great Ocean Road and worrying about driving over the line, because it was one of the first times that I had driven on the other side of the road and it was a cliff, so that was a little bit terrifying. And I also felt, when we were driving, that it was going by too quickly. And so I know that when you're on your bike, you're just able to absorb everything that is above you, beside you, you can hear, you can smell. All of those things just make for a really wonderful experience. So that's where I would transport myself. And not only would I just take myself, but I'd bring you with me, EJ, because then we could ride together.

Elizabeth: Okay, good. I was going to invite you to come, too. So I'm glad I'm involved.

Vanessa: You are 100% the person that I'm taking on the Great Ocean Road when it's closed to traffic. So for all of our listeners out there, regardless of how you are listening to us, whether you're catching us on YouTube or on any podcast platform of choice, please head over to one of our social platforms. And we are going to be posting this question to our audience, and we can't wait to hear what you have to say.

Announcer: Let’s go.

Vanessa: Oh, the bike. It is my absolute favorite discipline to train in this amazing sport we do, EJ. And now each session that is on the calendar is actually placed there for a reason. So not only in terms of training load during a macro or mesocycle, but for its specific purpose. Now, when an athlete understands that purpose, I truly believe that the execution is done with greater confidence, it's done with greater intention, and overall, that is going to lead to greater improvement on the athlete's part. And we're choosing, because it's you and me, the most difficult bike workouts that you'll see. And we're going to start with one that builds your ability to handle whatever the road is going to throw at you. So we are talking here about Big Gear workout. I have to say, EJ, when this one shows up on my calendar, I literally do a little bit of a dance party. I love this workout. Yes. Jazz hands, arms flailing, legs flailing, I love it so much. Now for those of you who are watching on YouTube, we'll be showing an example of what an athlete would see on the TriDot platform. And keep in mind that what you would see is not necessarily – or what you're going to see on the screen is not necessarily what you would see on your own specific workout, because this is based on Dot score, age, ability, gender, genetics -- all of these factors that influence the TriDot athlete's program. So keep that in mind. Coach EJ, can you tell us what that looks like? Tell us what this workout looks like, and why it's a part of the program, and what system of the body it is trying to develop?

Elizabeth: Absolutely. So with Big Gear, think: locate and strength building with squats, and then just pretending that you're on a super steep climb and it's going to make your muscles burn. And that would be this workout. So what this workout looks like -- typically there's a number of rounds, and you start with some squats, some isometric holds, some squat sequences. And then you're quickly going from on the bike to off the bike, on the bike, off the bike. So after these squats, you get on the bike and then you are going in a hard gear, low cadence -- I mean think, like, mega climb. And then you're doing a couple intervals there, then a little bit of an easy spin before you get off. Do more isometric holds, more squats, back on the bike, heavy gear for a couple different intervals. So it's on and off the bike, and all of it's hard. This one is awesome. It looks a little silly, I will preface it that way, but it's so good for us. Riding in a heavier gear than normal, and typically at a lower cadence, is really going to help build that strength. And the focus of this workout is being able to maintain that smooth, steady pedal stroke, despite that great increase in resistance. And so you're getting this amazing strength workout while also being on the bike. This develops muscular strength, and endurance, in those cycling specific muscles. So we're talking about building the quads, the hamstrings, the glutes, the calves. It's really going to help improve the force production and the pedal efficiency, which is going to help you in hills and sprints when you're out riding on the road. And then this is something that isn't often thought about with this workout, but it really improves the neuromuscular coordination, so it teaches the muscles to handle those higher loads and be able to do it smoothly. So we're not just mashing on the pedals. It's like, we can have good force production but still be efficient in doing it. And then, it's complimented with some aerobic training, because you're on and off the bike and the heart rate's pumping up, as well. So, gosh, this just is all around an excellent workout. One of my favorites.

Vanessa: I love this one, too. I know I've said it multiple times before, not even just on this specific podcast. I've mentioned it basically every time I can, because it's just so great. I love feeling the burn. Just tell me -- I want to see your isometric squat face on the last round.

Elizabeth: Oh, man. It's going to be total grit and forehead lines.

Vanessa: Exactly.

Elizabeth: It's ugly. It is. I mean, not only it's looking silly on and off the bike, but you kind of get the ugly face. Although I truthfully don't know if it's the uglier face on the isometric squats or some of those last rounds on the bike, after the squats. I think I could be equally challenging. I don't know where the ugly face really comes in. I'll have to ask my husband.

Vanessa: Yeah, right. That's always--

Elizabeth: He’ll rate it. Which one's worse?

Vanessa: So not only is it entertainment for us because we're suffering, it could be entertainment for someone who's actually watching us trying to complete this workout.

Elizabeth: Oh, probably. Yeah. Which, honestly, is why I usually will do this one at home, on the trainer, on my own. Yeah, this is not one I take out on the road. This is not one that I want to do in a group setting. This is like at home, on your own, in your own pain cave type of workout. Absolutely.

Vanessa: Agreed. 100%. Now, you had mentioned that the cadence for this one is pretty low. And if an athlete hasn't quite built up the strength yet, and they're struggling to hit that right cadence target, what adjustments can someone make during that ride, during the mid time of the workout, so that they still can remain effective and see some benefits down the road?

Elizabeth: This is a great question. And honestly, there's a couple different approaches that an athlete could use, or a coach and athlete could talk through together, to make sure that an athlete is still feeling successful with this. I know that I've worked with a couple athletes that have a higher cadence anyway, out on the road -- that they just have an average cadence that was around 100. That's not me. So for them to drop down to a low cadence, that's 55 to 65, is a huge decrease. And that's a big challenge for them. And so we may work up to that over the next couple months. So for them, low cadence work, for them, might be closer to 80 at first. And it's something like, okay, we want to get the stimulus of you do have a higher gear, and you have a lower cadence than you would typically ride. So for an athlete that is riding at 100 RPMs, typically, going down to 80 is still going to be a big decrease, and it's still going to provide a good stimulus for the muscles there. Ideally, we want to get down to that 55 to 65 cadence, but it might take a little bit of time to get there. It might be the third time, that they've done this workout, that we can really nail it. And I mean, the workout is there as plan A. Obviously, that is what it would be ideally. We have to really work with what is going to provide still a good stimulus for the athlete and make sure that they feel successful, as well. That can also go with the demand of the watts. For a newer athlete, this can be incredibly intimidating because they're not only focused on having a very high wattage, but also a really low cadence. And so we might start and say, “Okay, on the first round of this, I just want you to hit the watts. Get an idea of what that heavy load feels like. Then when you're off the bike, doing some squats, you get back on -- I still want you to hit those watts, but let's see if you can bring the cadence down a little bit.” And so just finding ways for them to feel successful and work their way down toward exactly what the workout is as written -- it might be a little bit of a progression. And so just knowing that we're looking for a heavier gear and a lower cadence than you would typically ride, is going to provide that good stimulus for the workout.

Vanessa: That's really great advice. I love what you said there, is that this is a process over time that's going to improve, right? You don't have to start right in the get go, and get right in there, and hit the watts and hit the cadence first off, the first time that you've tried this workout. So it is a process. And trying to hit the watts on the first time might be the goal. And then the next time that you do that workout, maybe it's to incorporate the watts in addition to one of the other factors that you had mentioned. So I think that's a really great way to look at this. So this Big Gear workout is not one that’s just about building strength and control, but being able to hammer out some decent power and fight through the burn on those isometric squats. That is grit-building in itself, just thinking about them, now. This brings us to our next session, one that is all about sustaining challenging efforts with precision and pacing. So the one that we're talking about here is Threshold Intervals. And these are those classic sessions that you're going to see in many different types of cycling training. They're simple on paper, and they're incredibly effective. So what do you want to talk, here, about? We've pulled up some Threshold Interval on the screen here. And just keep in mind that this is one example of a Threshold Interval, and you might see something different on your calendar based on your training cycle or who you are as an athlete. So, EJ, why don't you run us through these Threshold Intervals?

Elizabeth: I love what you said there about this is an example, because there's a lot of combinations for Threshold Intervals. Typically the duration of these intervals is somewhere between 5 and 20 minutes, and that's a big variance. You might have 5 x 5 minutes, you might have 2 x 20 minutes. So it's typically between 5 and 20 minutes, varying anywhere from 2 to 10 intervals, and you have a short recovery period in between. And again, a whole lot of combinations there. We'll let our math whiz figure out how many different combinations that makes, but I'm not doing that in my head today. But the intensity of these is performed right at, or just below, the lactate threshold, which usually corresponds to 85 to 90% of your FTP or your threshold heart rate, if you're using heart rate as a metric here. Cadence -- unlike the Big Gear workout, this one is a moderate cadence. So usually, what you would typically ride, probably 80 to 90 RPMs. And you're really looking at just maintaining an efficient and controlled effort level. As you talked about, Vanessa, pacing here is steady. We're really trying to avoid big surges or spikes. We're trying to keep an even effort throughout. And then we're also teaching the body to recover pretty quickly, because as we can see, just even on the diagram here, the recovery between these intervals is pretty short. Here on this example, you've got two minutes and then you're going again. So there's a lot that's happening physiologically in these sessions. One of the things that's great about these is it can help really improve an athlete's threshold. So these intervals enhance the body's ability to clear lactate and the hydrogen ions. And it just allows an athlete to sustain a higher intensity for a longer period of time before fatigue starts to set in. Because these are done still in the aerobic area of training, it increases aerobic capacity, as well. And so you're really improving the mitochondrial density and the oxygenation in the muscles. It's just, like you said, it's a classic. It's a bread-and-butter workout. You're going to have this, you're going to see this. And fine-tuning pedaling mechanics. We talked a little bit about that neuromuscular connection, as well, on the previous workout. This one has it, too. There's just so many good things here. And we're looking at fatigue resistance. And I feel like I've said probably five different things about why this one's good. There's a reason that we see this on our schedule so often, let's put it that way. There's a lot of physiological adaptations that are taking place and you're just going to get the best bang for your buck in doing these Threshold Intervals.

Vanessa: I was going to say, I don't know about you, but you had mentioned that you're working in the aerobic zone, but when you're on that last one, if you have multiple ones, or if you're working towards -- if you have a 2 x 18 or something and you're at the 17th, 18th minute, it does not feel like aerobic zones at all.

Elizabeth: It’s true. Yes. Yeah, you're starting to see maybe a little bit of heart rate decoupling there and it's going up.

Vanessa: Absolutely. Now, I have a couple of questions about these ones. If someone is starting to see that their power is dropping towards the end of a very long interval, or at the later stages of multiple intervals, what should they focus on to finish strong? And not only to see a high TrainX score, but to see the most benefit, in terms of the physiological systems that are being impacted by these workouts?

Elizabeth: Yeah, great question. So these workouts -- they should be challenging, but they should also be manageable. And so one of the things that we want to make sure is that athletes have truly established what their threshold is and what their FTP needs to be, and then taking into consideration the environment, as well. And so I just want to put that out there first, as a disclaimer. If you're not working with a recent threshold test, or you're not taking those environmental conditions into consideration, it's very possible for you to really struggle through this, or to get through the first couple intervals and then feel like it's impossible to do the others. And so we really want to make sure that this is fine-tuned to the intensity that it needs to be and then takes those conditions into consideration. Now, if those two things have already been met and you're starting to fatigue a little bit, a couple things to focus on are a smooth pedal stroke -- so maintaining a steady cadence. If you're starting to let the cadence drop, then you're going to need a greater resistance for that lower cadence to produce that same power. And so if you can keep the cadence up and just maintain that smooth pedal stroke, that's going to be great. Another thing here is to really control the breathing. So using deep breaths, focused effort -- not short, shallow breaths where you feel like you're gasping for air. You're going to start to put your nervous system into panic mode. And we want to keep the body calm, controlled, have good breathing patterns so that we can do the next couple intervals. And then the other thing that I'd say is to just make sure that you're fueling and hydrating well. So really reflect on that. And even though some of these workouts are an hour long, if you've got 2 x 20 minutes, you're going to need to fuel that session. Okay, yes, it's 60 minutes, but there's a great demand. And so you either need to have eaten pretty soon going into that workout or you need to be fueling during – maybe both -- because there's a great demand on the body. So reflect on those couple things and see if that can help nail those last few intervals.

Vanessa: You are just the master at providing these coaching tips for not only all of the audience, but for me, as well. I appreciate it so much, all of the things that you have to say. You have such wisdom and wonderful insight. I'm curious if you have any -- you talked about the tips that you have in terms of how you can overcome this in the physiological sense. Do you have any mental tips on how to get through those? I don't know about you, but the 5 x 6 intervals, those are intense. That last set is so difficult. Almost as difficult as the last five minutes in your 2 x 18s or 2 x 20s. So what mental strategies do you try and put in there to make sure that you can execute and complete this workout?

Elizabeth: Yeah, so the first thing is to take each interval in itself. Oftentimes I'll look at one of those sessions and I start to psych myself out a little bit. I was like, “Oh my gosh, we've got six intervals today.” On the first one I'm already thinking, how am I going to hold number six? And I have to catch myself and be like, “Whoa, we're not there yet. We got to nail this one right now. Just focus on the interval that you're in. I'm only worried about this one. Okay.” When I get to number two, I'm going to worry about number two. I'm still not going to worry about number six. When I'm in number three, I'm just worried about number three. And then within the interval itself, I sometimes have to find myself breaking it down into smaller wins. Depending on the day, it might be I can make it for five minutes. Sometimes it's a minute. And I have certainly been known to break it down into 30-second wins, too. I'm like, “Alright, in this six minute interval, I've got 12 little wins,” and I just count them off. I'm like, “Oh, another 30 seconds down, another 30 seconds down, another 30 seconds down.” And for me, I personally do well building on that positive momentum. And so if I'm like, “Alright, three wins, four wins,” then I can just spur myself to keep going. So stick with the interval that you're in, and then break it down, like, chunk it in whatever way you need to, to just get through the next part. And don't worry about what's going to happen in that 9th 30-second segment of that last interval. Just do the 30 seconds you're in right now. Nail that and then worry about the next one. Then worry about the next one.

Vanessa: I have a very similar tactic to you, actually. And you're right. As you said earlier, EJ, it really depends on how you're feeling on that day. You might have some residual stress from another workout that you've completed. And so these intervals might feel harder than you want them to. But chunking that time into – I often, I have to admit, the 30-seconds is one of the things that I rely on quite heavily. And I will count backwards. I will start -- I limit myself. I'm like, “Okay, if this is an 18-minute segment, I can't start counting by 30 seconds until I, at least, am halfway through the workout.” And then I'll count the ‘18th’ 30-seconds down. Done. Okay, now I have 17 30-seconds left, and then I have 16, and then sure enough, before you know it, you're at four and then three. But I do appreciate, I love that you look at it as little wins. So I think I might start having a little mini party for myself every time I get through 30 seconds on the, yeah, the Threshold Intervals.

Elizabeth: For me, music is a huge motivator. And so if I can find some music that I love, I'll blast that during bike workouts. At certain seasons of the year, too, there's just a song that I love. My poor husband – like right now, there's a song I like and it's two and a half minutes long. So all of my 5-minute intervals, I kid you not, if it's 5 x 5 on the bike, it's that song on repeat. Because I know I just have to do that song twice, and then I'm done with that interval. And then we get to interval number two, and I listen to it twice again. He'll come in, he was like, “Oh my gosh, how many times have we heard this song today?” It's like, “Well, I only have three more intervals, so you only have to hear it six more times.” I am not beyond just putting the same song on repeat. And it just gives me good vibes. It's my interval song. I know it, I can get it done, and I don't have to look at the timer because I know exactly how long it is. So music can be a good motivator, too.

Vanessa: I'm just giggling over here, because that is so hilarious that you have this one song that is that motivational for you. I hope everybody has a song that is just like that. Every time you hear it, you just feel like everything's going right and you've got all of that positive energy flowing. So mental focus is really key, especially as these efforts are going to build, which kind of sets us up really nicely for the next one, because Threshold and Hold takes that steady effort that we've been putting into these intervals, but it stretches it even one step further. So, EJ, here we're going to be pulling up the Threshold and Hold picture so our audience can see. Talk to us about this one. When does an athlete see this on their calendar? And how should they go about executing it, in addition to why we even do this one in the first place?

Elizabeth: Absolutely. So this is sneaky tough. And I feel like ‘sneaky tough’ is the perfect description for Threshold and Hold workouts. There's usually a lot of Zone 3 work at the end of these sessions. And on paper, you think, “Oh, Zone 3, that's easy. It's not Zone 4, not Zone 5. I got that.” But keeping that sustained effort, especially near the end of the session, can be extremely challenging. Now, these Threshold and Hold workouts, you'll see them throughout the season, but they're very much targeted toward an athlete building toward a longer race, especially like a 70.3 or an IRONMAN distance, where a lot of their race effort is going to be in that Zone 3. And so they really need the opportunity to practice holding that effort for a sustained period of time. So in these Threshold and Hold workouts, we start with the threshold part. So typically, the threshold effort is first. And athletes are going to maintain that threshold intensity for an interval, or two, or three. And then they go into the ‘hold’ portion of it. And those ‘hold’ segments are usually where we see that Zone 3 riding. And that's broken into a couple different segments, again, with brief recovery periods. And this really helps simulate race conditions, and that race effort, being in Zone 3, having to sustain it for a long period of time. Now pacing and focus are absolutely paramount in these sessions. We want an even effort. Yes, you do have some Zone 4 at the beginning, but we're really avoiding big power spikes or surges so that we can really just keep a nice pace throughout. And then, as you mentioned, being able to lock in and focus on these is key. Now this example that we have up here on the screen is 2 x 15. But another example might be where an athlete has 12 x 9 minutes at Zone 3, and then they have just a quick minute recovery in between. And so you're talking about 12 intervals, at the end of there, that are 9 minutes long each. That's a long time to hold Zone 3 with very brief recovery periods in between. So they seem straightforward on paper. They're like, “Alright, got some Zone 4, got some Zone 3.” But the sustained focus, especially as you start to physically fatigue, makes these workouts incredibly challenging, but also incredibly effective for building the resilience and the endurance that's needed for a good race bike split.

Vanessa: These ones can be incredibly challenging, both physically and mentally. When you were mentioning the multiple efforts at the end, the 9-minute, or the 9 x ‘whatever’-minutes at the end of the workout, that is hard. And whenever you pull that up on your calendar, not only do you have the threshold portion, like the Zone 4 prior to that, but then the entire back end of the workout is Zone 3. That is really tough, physically and mentally. And I know when those ones pop up in my calendar, I'm usually riding outside by that point. And so I find that it makes it even harder. I think it would be easier to let the trainer control those efforts towards the end, but when you have to will yourself into that Zone 3 at the end, man, that is pretty challenging. So I'm curious. Now, as these efforts become longer -- an athlete might have 2 x 18 on the Zone 4 section, despite the fact that we're showing one that has one threshold interval at the beginning, they might have 2 x 18 or might be 2 x 10, or whatever it might be. If an athlete starts to feel their form slipping in either the Zone 4 or the Zone 3 at the end, what's the best cue, or reset, that can get them back on track?

Elizabeth: Couple different things that I know that I've utilized, and I've talked with my athletes about. One of the things that becomes interesting here is perceived effort versus what is actually happening physically. I know that I am guilty of being at the end of these Threshold and Hold workouts, and it feels hard. And then I look at my heart rate and I'm like, oh. Physically, I'm okay. I'm just grumpy and fatigued, and maybe I need to take a little bit of a reflection period here and give myself a little pep talk. And so that's one of the things to think about, too. Is the body really starting to fatigue or are you just mentally kind of over it? And I oftentimes find, and I'll be the first to admit, that sometimes I'm mentally not as focused as I need to be at the end of this. And physically I can do it. I just need to give myself a little bit of a pep talk and get myself in gear. So that's one of the things to look about. And using metrics, like heart rate, can really give me a good indication of, like, “This feels hard, but I'm in a Zone 2 heart rate. I'm not even in a Zone 3 heart rate. It's time to step it up. I physically can do this.” I often find, too, that if I'm feeling a little bit negative, I might be behind on my fueling. And so the brain needs glucose. And so if you are behind on that, one of the first things to go is your mental attitude and your focus. And so do you need to be fueling? And especially because we're seeing a lot of these workouts in long course race preparation, athletes do need to be practicing their race nutrition plan during these sessions. And that Zone 3 effort is a great way to make sure that what you're taking in on these sessions is going to fuel you well on your race event, as well. So think about that. The other thing, if this is starting to fall apart a little bit, consider a mini break. Okay, yeah, it's 2 x 18. Give yourself 30 seconds to regroup, and then get back on it. Sometimes just that mini break, whether it's mentally or physically, is going to help you finish the rest of the interval strong versus you just watching the power tank for the last nine minutes of it. It's like, if you just give yourself a little bit of a reset, you're good to go. That might happen during racing, too. You might need to give yourself a little reset. Take 30 seconds, grab a drink of water, grab a little bit of a gel, and then get ready to go again. And I think that having those mini breaks, even as you're doing these workouts or riding outside, gives you good strategies for what to do when you're racing and it starts to feel hard, or you start to feel like you're fatigued, as well.

Vanessa: I think that's a really important thing to think about. I've noticed I don't tend to take breaks when I'm doing my rides, but I have noticed the impact that that mini break can have during a race, when you have a bike mechanical, or something like that, and you're forced to stop. And how you feel when you get back going, it's like you have this newfound energy that is propelling you forward. And it's like this tiny little reset that makes a huge difference not only physically, because of that heart rate drop, but it allows you to mentally reset, and to refocus on the ultimate goal that you have set out for yourself. And it's just magical. So I'm glad that you brought that up. Now, another question that I have with regards to the nutrition. Now, some athletes are not necessarily training for a long course. And so these sessions might be on the shorter side, just over an hour, for some athletes. If it's an hour and 15 minutes, do you still think that your athletes need to be fueling for an hour and 15 minutes? I know a lot of athletes are like, “I'm not fueling if it's under an hour.” And so now we've added just maybe 15 minutes extra. Do you think that it's appropriate to add in fueling strategy even though it's just 15 minutes?

Elizabeth: I 100% do. And this is something that is certainly going to depend athlete by athlete. A lot of this is also going to depend on when an athlete is working out. If they're getting up -- typically this is a session we'd see on a Saturday. And so if an athlete gets up and they have breakfast, and then they're going into that 75-minute ride, okay, maybe they're alright without fueling. But high intensity work demands fuel. And so especially if you've got a 75-minute session, where the majority of that is in Zone 4 or Zone 3 -- if it's not just a 75-minute Zone 2 ride, there's a greater demand on the body. And so I am a big advocate for fueling these sessions, not only for the performance in the session, but also for the recovery afterward. If you're giving your body a good amount of carbohydrate during these sessions, it's going to recover better than if you're not fueling it. Now, again, I know there's nuances there. If an athlete has breakfast, does the 75-minute session, they can rock it, probably, with just some water, maybe some electrolytes. If they're recovering well afterward, with a good source of protein and some carbohydrates, can they get by without fueling it? Yes. But for the majority of people, I would say something like this, high intensity, they would benefit from fueling this session.

Vanessa: So we all know -- because you've not mentioned this only for this workout, EJ, you've mentioned it for the Threshold Intervals as well -- that the amount of effort that you're putting into the session, regardless of how long that session is, it's important to make sure that you're fueling yourself appropriately. And from what I have experienced, and from what I know that you have said before on previous podcasts, the fuel that you take in during those sessions is going to allow you to finish that session a lot stronger. And then just as you mentioned now, the recovery aspect. We know, as triathletes, we're training every day, if not multiple times a day. Maybe we have a rest day in there at some points, but we're working ourselves really hard. And so that recovery aspect is huge. We all know that. And so if we can get a head start on that recovery by having a little bit of fuel here and there, I think that we're setting ourselves up for a massive amount of success. So thank you so much for talking about that.

Elizabeth: I’m just going to say, as much as I mentioned it, we probably should just say, “EJ likes snacks.” That's what it is.

Vanessa: Vanessa likes snacks, too.

Elizabeth: I’m just looking for ways to get a little more like, yeah, let's have snacks all the time.

Vanessa: So not only do we have to control Threshold and Hold and our gummy Nerds snack consumption, we have to remain calm, steady, efficient, even when those legs are screaming. Let's take that power and focus and start layering in progression, where the effort builds with each round. So these ones here are getting a little bit more challenging. So I'm going to pull this up on the screen here, one of our Step Up workouts. This one here is -- I'm going to let EJ explain this workout. It is a great one. I love it when it pops on my calendar. So, EJ, take it away with what a Step Up workout actually is, and then how and why it's in our workout ecosystem.

Elizabeth: First of all, for those that can see it, isn't this just pretty? So, you look at it, what a pretty workout. This looks great. Maybe that's what we need to think about as we're in the middle of this and doing Zone 5. It's like, “But this one's pretty. It's alright. It's going to be okay.” Step Ups. These workouts are no joke, and I think they're deceptive because you see a little bit of Zone 2 between these progressions. And so if you're not able to watch on YouTube, you're just listening here, here's kind of what happens. You have multiple rounds where you're starting, and you do a Zone 3 effort, get a little bit of recovery in Zone 2. Do a Zone 4 effort, get a little bit of recovery in Zone 2. Do a Zone 5 effort, do a little bit of recovery in Zone 2. So you're building the effort from Zone 3 to Zone 4 to Zone 5. Now, as you're building that effort, you're also decreasing the cadence. So Zone 3, you're starting off, it's like 80 RPMs. You go up to Zone 4, we're going to try to drop those RPMs down to 75. Go up to Zone 5, we're going to try to drop those RPMs down to 70. So intensity is building, cadence is getting lower, and you've got just brief breaks of Zone 2 in the middle of it. And let's decide to do this two or three times. That's Step Ups. These are awesome. Gosh, as we're talking through these workouts, I'm like, “Oh, that one's my favorite. That one's my favorite.” I love this one, too. This is a good one. We are getting aerobic and anaerobic systems involved here, because you really have that higher intensity, especially that Zone 5 portion. This is great because there's not only the physical part of the anaerobic system that's activated, but we're getting a lot of neuromuscular adaptations here. So that concentrated effort to maintain steady force and rhythm enhances the motor unit recruitment, and then the neuromuscular coordination that happens under those greater loads. This workout is really good for improved power output, because you are building, and you're getting into some of that Zone 5 power, where we don't touch on as often. I would say we probably do more Zone 4 than we do Zone 5. And so this is an opportunity to really increase that power output there. And then, there's some metabolic stress that happens with this, too. So because there's brief recovery periods, but you're working at a high intensity, you do get that building up of lactic acid. And so we have to get the muscles to adapt to that as well, and have that buffering capacity and fatigue resistance that comes. When you're up there in Zone 5, okay, you got a little brief break, but then let's go for round two. Let's go for round three. Let's keep this going. So there's a whole lot of reasons why we see this on the schedule. I get excited when we do. As you said, there's a purpose behind all of these sessions, and it looks pretty, but there's more than just the pretty graph. There's a lot that's happening within the body that's going to make you a better cyclist from a workout like this.

Vanessa: This one is really pretty. The colored graphs, just as you say, they just fill up my heart with joy. But then when you're actually executing the workout, I don't know if there's that much joy that's coming out on the surface. But the joy comes after, because, as you said, these ones are the ones that are going to build up your ability to withstand greater tension. And so when we're racing and we're coming up to a hill, all you have to say is, thank you, Step Ups. Because that's what's going to allow you to get to the top of that hill, right? And I do remember the first time that this one popped on my calendar, and I had three sets of these Step Ups. And the first set, I was like, “This is so awesome. I love this workout. It's so great.” And then the second set, I was like, “Oh, gosh, this is getting a little bit challenging.” And then the third set, I was like, “Where's my garbage pail? Because I might lose all of my gummy nerd snacks.” But it's really a great one. Now I'm curious, how should an athlete approach gearing, or trainer resistance, when the power increases in this workout, but then we see that cadence drop? What would you recommend for that?

Elizabeth: Yep. This is a session that I do like to do on the trainer, just because I do find it easier to control those variables with the resistance, with the cadence. It certainly can be done outdoors. And as you're outside and you're doing this ride, I would say you're really going to need to change gears and add some heavy resistance so that you can slow the cadence. You probably are going to be in some of your biggest gears if you're riding this outdoors, just so that you can get down to that 70 RPM. I know some athletes struggle a little bit more to get down to the 70 RPM, just depending on what their gearing is on their bike outside. And so depending on what they have available, we may move this inside onto a trainer, just so that they have a little bit more flexibility to do that. But yeah, getting to know your bike is also a benefit of these sessions. What can you put, in terms of resistance, on there? And what cadence can you do to match the demands of that power output? And so it might be something that the first time that you do a session like this, if you're doing it outdoors, you fumble a little bit with trying to figure out what the proper gearing and cadence is going to be to produce what you're looking for for Zone 4, Zone 5. And thankfully, you probably have two or three rounds, so maybe use that first round to really hone in on what that's going to need. And then by rounds two and three, you probably have an idea of what gear you need to be in to help produce that power in that cadence. But, as much as I say I like to do this one on the trainer, because the variables are easier to control, getting to know your bike, and the gearing, and how you can shift to make these changes is a huge skill. And I personally, I mean, I'll go out on a limb here and say I don't think triathletes are great about that. I think a lot of us would rather be inside and nail the workout, and in this case, get our unicorn and get the 100 TrainX points. But how is that going to translate to the race course? And are you going to be better equipped if you can maneuver some of those variables and learn what that's like to shift on your bike and create that different resistance? So maybe that's just a challenge for all of us out there. Yes, this would be easier to do on your trainer, but get to know your bike a little bit. Learn a little bit more about the gearing, play with the cadence. See what you have available, because that's a weapon on the race course. If you know what you're doing on your gearing, that's huge. You're going to be a more efficient cyclist because of it.

Vanessa: Agreed. I love how you stated that, EJ. I think this workout in itself is building both strength and also awareness. And not only awareness in terms of what you had mentioned, physiologically -- getting to know the cadence, and the power outputs, and what it feels like to be in Zone 5 versus Zone 4 versus Zone 3 -- but then bringing in that aspect of getting to know your bike. And you're right, a lot of triathletes do not know how to ride a bike outdoors with proper gearing. And so I think there's a huge aspect of awareness here. So if you are doing this workout outside, all the power to you. Not only watt power, but the power to getting to know your bike and your gearing. Now, when you can stay steady as the intensity rises, you're ready for one of the most specific workouts there is. And we're talking here about Over Unders. So these ones are classic, and they're as practical as it gets. You're training your body to handle effort changes that mimic real racing. Can you hit us with what this workout typically looks like, and what body system is improving as a result of this? So let us know, EJ, what is the Over Under pattern? And what system does it affect in an athlete?

Elizabeth: Alright, so Over Unders. The intervals here on this workout are going to alternate between slightly above-threshold for your over, and then slightly below-threshold for your under. And so you're going to go back and forth, just toeing the line of threshold a little bit over, a little bit under, back and forth. You might do four minutes under, four minutes over, four minutes under, a little bit of a break. And then you'll have multiple rounds of that. And this is great because there's a lactate threshold adaptation, because we're training right around that threshold, just above and just below it. This is one that you get, again, the aerobic and the anaerobic conditioning, because you're going under but then over, as well. And so you are going to see the heart rate rise. And we are going to get into, probably, a little bit of that anaerobic conditioning, as well. The pacing and effort control on this is hard, but awesome. You do not get a break. Do not expect those ‘unders’ to feel like a full recovery. It's like, we're still working right around threshold. And I think that's one thing that I know it in my head, and once I get on the bike, I still need that reminder. Because the mental toughness to be able to have this sustained effort to go Zone 4 to Zone 5 to back to Zone 4, it's hard. And so there's a lot. And we've talked about this with almost all the sessions. There's a great physical benefit, but the mental benefit of this one, too, is major. It's a good one.

Vanessa: This one is really fun and, also, very challenging. And it's funny -- I don't know what you feel when you're doing this workout from moving over to under, but how can an athlete manage that transition? Especially if there might be some cadence involved there. How would an athlete manage the transition from the Zone 4 to the Zone 5, and then back to the Zone 4?

Elizabeth: We're going to go back to those little 30-second wins. And I find that if I can nail the first 30 seconds of that transition, I'll be okay. It’s just, like, the beginning of that transition between them is hard and awkward. And so going to Zone 4, going to Zone 5, it's like, “Oof, this is going to be a boost in effort here.” And so I need to make sure that I nail this transition. And in those 30 seconds, I need to find a smooth rhythm to be able to sustain that for the rest of whatever that effort is. And then, again, when you're coming off of that ‘over’ section, you're dropping the effort, but not so much. And so it's, again, trying to find where that ‘under’ is. And so it's, “Okay, I need to drop the effort,” and I give myself that 30 seconds to find it, and then steady for the rest of it. It's almost like a little bit of a grace period because you are still transitioning, and it's not necessarily going to be something that in the first two seconds, you're going to nail it from one power output to the next. It might be something where it's a little wobbly going up, or a little wobbly coming down, but then you settle in at what that effort is. So give yourself a little bit of grace in that. I know when we look at the chart, it looks like we're going to boom to boom, under to over. But in reality, we got to lift up to that effort, and we got to bring it back down. So give yourself a little bit of grace in those transitions, but just know that after -- and you can set it. Maybe it's 15 seconds, maybe it's 30 seconds, but once you have that transition period, then it's time to hold steady.

Vanessa: That is wonderful advice, not only for this workout, but for any workout -- whether it's swim, or run, or bike -- to be able to manage that transition. Because all workouts, for any triathlete, are going to involve transitions from one pace, or power, to another. And so giving yourself that transition period is a really valuable tip. I love that you threw that in there. Now, in terms of these transitions, sometimes we have unpredictable rhythms that happen on race day. So how do these workouts help to prepare someone for that?

Elizabeth: I think of these a lot as when you need to make a pass on the racecourse. And you're holding a steady effort, you're holding your race effort, let's say, and then you're coming across an athlete and you need to pass them. Oftentimes, if you're coming up on an athlete, that also means that you're going to be able to make a smooth pass. That isn't always the case. Depending on where you're passing that athlete -- you might have come up to them and you're about to start a climb. And all of a sudden, to make that pass -- make that pass legally, within the time constraints that we have, and you've probably got a referee coming to watch you make this pass, too -- you're going to have to surge a little bit, in that effort. And so I think of these a lot as passing efforts. And so you're holding a good race effort, you need to dig a little deeper and, maybe, extend the energy up a little bit to make that pass. But then, you're not going to just go and recover as soon as that pass is made. You need to get right back on your race effort. Like, yeah, you don't need to be up in Zone 5. We don't want to hang out there. It's too hard for racing, but let's bring it back down. And we still want a good, steady effort. And so I find that this is fantastic for thinking of some of those mental race tactics. And then, obviously with the high-power output that you have here, that's going to be great for sprints, hills. Depending on what kind of racing you're doing, or what terrain it is that you're racing on, this is going to build great muscular strength. And I mean, that high intensity work is going to build some good speed in the legs.

[Transition Sound Effect]

Vanessa: Our Cool Down question for the day comes from one of our TriDot athletes whose name is Ronnie. Are you ready, EJ?

Elizabeth: All set. Let's do it.

Vanessa: Okay, so Ronnie is asking, “What's the easiest way to get power measured on the bike? I currently have a dumb trainer, and a very simple bike computer that monitors miles per hour and cadence. I'm trying to stay on the lower side of cost, but I'm realizing that monitoring my power would be a lot more reliable than heart rate.” So I'm hoping you can start with what you, as a coach, have noticed with athletes who are going from using heart rate as a metric to using power as a metric, and then move into power -- all while considering budget, because that's such an important factor for so many athletes.

Elizabeth: This is a great question. I'm really glad that Ronnie submitted this. As I was starting off, I was just using heart rate, and it was fine. You can still be effective, you can still get a great workout, you can still race really well. But one of the things I find, is that when athletes are moving from heart rate to power, we just see the trajectory of improvement increase exponentially, just because they can be so much more precise with their workouts. And so I'm getting really giddy for Ronnie, here. I’m like, “Alright, Ronnie's setting themselves up for major improvements. This is going to be good.” And thankfully, power meters have become much more affordable. And so when they first came out, it was a big blow to the budget to be able to put a power meter in your training. Now there's great options, and as athletes keep upgrading, one of the things that I found is there's a lot of secondhand purchases that can be made that are perfect for training. There's no reason why you can't look for something that's been used before and get that as a really good option. As athletes are looking for something that's more budget friendly, I would probably recommend the pedal-based power meters, or crank-based power meter. Pedal-based power meters are great because they're highly accurate. They're a reasonable price point, especially if you were to do just one-sided power. And so if you do one-sided power pedal, that's going to be less expensive than if you were to do a dual-sided power meter pedal. So you've got a great opportunity there. What else is great about the power meter in the pedal is that you can swap it between bikes And so if you have an athlete that really just has the budget for one power meter, but they might be riding the road bike for some of the year and then they'll get on their triathlon bike as they're getting more race specific, you can use that same power meter in the pedals for both the road bike and transition it over to the TT bike. Crank-based power meters -- Stages is one that's been very popular. Again, they have a single-sided, crank arm power meter. So something, again, if you're looking for power just on one side versus two, that's going to be relatively more affordable. And those are also really easy to install. And then the Stages power meter is very compatible with a lot of different setups, and so athletes find that that's a really easy one to integrate into what they already have. So Ronnie, take a couple looks at maybe some of those options and get more precise with those workouts. I think we're going to see a good improvement.

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